The tread about the Harley Knucklehead got me thinking about a long standing disagreement. Other than Harleys having no frame numbers before about 1969, most or all street bikes have frame and engine 'VIN' numbers. Some are matching,some not as they come out the factory door. The argument is a guy claims the frame number is required for titling purposes in all states of the USA.Using the engine number is a misrepresentation. Here in NY,DMV does not ask you if it's frame or engine numbers.They go by what's on the previous title or in the in the case of 72 or older that are not titled, they go by the last registration. NY DMV does not look at the vehicle for routine title applications. I don't know about the laws in other states.I have looked online for any info stating the frame number must be used for the VIN.All I find is info stating VIN numbers cannot be altered or defaced, etc.
At that time Guzzi had to affix a U.S.-compliant frame number, which appears on a tag riveted to the steering head. European models did not require this, and show the original frame number stamped into the steering head. As the successor of the V7 sport bikes, the Moto Guzzi 850 Le Mans gave a new impulse to the Italian Moto Guzzi factory. In the 70s the Le Mans was a spectacular bike which has become a style icon of these years.
![Moto Guzzi Engine Identification Numbers Moto Guzzi Engine Identification Numbers](http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_images/vin_frame_v700.jpg)
Do any of you have any info on this from your state that actually says the frame number must be used? Same in California. I have brought three vehicles in from out of state. I use the DMV services at AAA, and they must see the numbers on the vehicle. They look for the VIN on two places - the sticker and stamped into the frame - those have to match.
They also see and record the engine number. Once it's in the CA system, they only need to see the paperwork for subsequent title changes. My current example: for my (previously Unkept's) project, the Indiana title only showed the frame number. Since I had it shipped in, and it has not been operated on a California road, I don't have to register it or insure it until it is working.
![Moto Guzzi Engine Identification Numbers Moto Guzzi Engine Identification Numbers](http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_images/vin_frame_a_series_ambassador.jpg)
When it's working, it will have a different engine than it came with. But CA DMV doesn't know about that since the original engine number isn't on the Indiana paperwork.
When it's running, CA will record the engine number from whatever is in the bike at the time I register it. In Ohio, if the bike comes from out of state, the BMV will do an Out of State inspection as step#1 before you can get the title step#2, (which just means you stand in one extra long line sequence), and that out of state inspection consists of someone from the BMV to physically go outside to check and compare the VIN (or VIN plate) on the frame and mileage on the clock and make sure they match the incoming title. Nothing about the engine numbers. If something is 'wrong' on the incoming/previous title, you're screwed.
You pretty much have to go back to the previous owner and beg them to fix it at their BMV/DMV then try again, which is really fun as we can all imagine. As far as in-state title transfer goes, you just go in with the signed title filled out by the previous owner in your name with mileage and sale price, and that's it.
All is based on VIN (nothing separate about the engine.) Everything in Ohio that goes on the road must have a title issued; even a 50cc moped from 1980. In Ohio, if the bike comes from out of state, the BMV will do an Out of State inspection as step#1 before you can get the title step#2, (which just means you stand in one extra long line sequence), and that out of state inspection consists of someone from the BMV to physically go outside to check and compare the VIN (or VIN plate) on the frame and mileage on the clock and make sure they match the incoming title. Nothing about the engine numbers.
If something is 'wrong' on the incoming/previous title, you're screwed. You pretty much have to go back to the previous owner and beg them to fix it at their BMV/DMV then try again, which is really fun as we can all imagine. As far as in-state title transfer goes, you just go in with the signed title filled out by the previous owner in your name with mileage and sale price, and that's it. All is based on VIN (nothing separate about the engine.) Everything in Ohio that goes on the road must have a title issued; even a 50cc moped from 1980.